combat time *again*

What if I intend to shoot the enemy after I Focus for a few rounds? The Focus action is not usable outside of combat. That's a good point. I suppose focusing starts combat time as well.And this completely trashes the arguement. You have now said that the intent to eventually attack constitutes as starting combat. You do realise that thematically a Ronin Duelist Studying his opponent is doing almost the exact same thing as Focusing. If you concede one point and not the other than you are simply being arbitrary.

This is more of a problem with the initiative system and how it interacts with surprise and the Defense 5 Mastery Ability than with combat time per se. Actually, in my example, the Bayushi Bushi just plain beat the attacker on the initiative roll. His first action was to take Full Defense, know that the attacker was going to be forced to attack. Then, when he attacker missed, he would attack with his Free Raises from his Rank 2.

What if I intend to shoot the enemy after I Focus for a few rounds? The Focus action is not usable outside of combat. That's a good point. I suppose focusing starts combat time as well.And this completely trashes the arguement. You have now said that the intent to eventually attack constitutes as starting combat. You do realise that thematically a Ronin Duelist Studying his opponent is doing almost the exact same thing as Focusing. If you concede one point and not the other than you are simply being arbitrary. No. Focusing is more than just the intent to eventually attack. It is an aggressive action. This is more of a problem with the initiative system and how it interacts with surprise and the Defense 5 Mastery Ability than with combat time per se. Actually, in my example, the Bayushi Bushi just plain beat the attacker on the initiative roll. His first action was to take Full Defense, know that the attacker was going to be forced to attack. Then, when he attacker missed, he would attack with his Free Raises from his Rank 2. Which I don't consider that much of a problem, really. Does it screw the attacker? Sure. But that doesn't mean he should be able to just do nothing, or even something non-threatening instead of attacking. He made a move to attack but got taken in speed. Sucks if it happens to you, but it's quite plausible so the attacker isn't screwed beyond what he should expect might possibly happen.

He made a move to attack but got taken in speed. But he didn't get taken. The Bayushi Bushi is on Full Defense. Are you honestly telling me that the attacker should be compelled to move his Water and attack an opponent, when the conditions are clearly not in his favor? Sucks if it happens to you, but it's quite plausible so the attacker isn't screwed beyond what he should expect might possibly happen. If it were me, I would look for an openning to exploit. No. Focusing is more than just the intent to eventually attack. It is an aggressive action. What is so much more aggressive about Focusing then going on Full Defense and studying your opponent? They are both using concentration to exploit some weakness or gain an advantage over an opponent.

He made a move to attack but got taken in speed. But he didn't get taken. The Bayushi Bushi is on Full Defense. Are you honestly telling me that the attacker should be compelled to move his Water and attack an opponent, when the conditions are clearly not in his favor? Of course he got taken in speed. He attacked the Bayushi, but before making his strike his opponent managed to get his defenses up. Turns are simultaneous: the Bayushi didn't go on FD before he was attacked, he went on FD as he was attacked. No. Focusing is more than just the intent to eventually attack. It is an aggressive action. What is so much more aggressive about Focusing then going on Full Defense and studying your opponent? They are both using concentration to exploit some weakness or gain an advantage over an opponent. Going on FD and studying your opponent is also focusing, no? Or are you referring to some other kind of studying?

Going on FD and studying your opponent is also focusing, no? Or are you referring to some other kind of studying? You can't Focus on Full Defense. I was referring to the Ronin Duelist Rank 2. They can study their opponent, while on Full Defense.

Shawn Carman, myself and several others have agreed that no ruling stating exactly what always / never starts combat time / calls for an initiative roll will ever be ruled as any attempt to do so will only serve to limit the GM's ability to prevent abusive combos / obfuscations of the combat system. Combat time starts and Initiative is rolled when the GM says so.

While hardly an ideal solution, it does get rid of the problem of 'fishing for initiative' (which is an especially annoying phenominon, as Initiative should not be apparent before combat has started). Plus, why is it only the attacker that is penalized this way? Because he is the one who committed to action. One of the PC's declares that he is going to attack, so he initiates combat. The rest of the group now gets to act normally, just the attacker is forced into a particular action. What happens when the rest of the party beats him on Initiative and kill every opponent that is within range of the attacker? If you ask me, he got lucky. But in terms of what this means for the scenario. Let's say that the Shiba Jets are facing off against the Yoritomo Sharks, and the atmosphere is very tense. Finally one of the Yoritomo Sharks has decided enough is enough and reaches for his 4' straight razor. Seeing his intent, everyone imediately reacts, and before the sword has cleared it's saya the other Yoritomo Sharks have already cleared a 15' circle about the brash samurai. By the time his blade connects with one of the Shiba Jets, the man is already dead.

This is more of a problem with the initiative system and how it interacts with surprise and the Defense 5 Mastery Ability than with combat time per se. Actually, in my example, the Bayushi Bushi just plain beat the attacker on the initiative roll. His first action was to take Full Defense, know that the attacker was going to be forced to attack. Then, when he attacker missed, he would attack with his Free Raises from his Rank 2. I fail to see this as being any worse than the "I charge into the fray in Full Defense" strategies that get put forth regularly. At least in this case the Bayushi Bushi can't be the one to have started the fight.

I really do not like the idea of forced actions. When someone wants to attack someone, they are not committed to the attack.

Like I said, it's a problematic 'solution.' However, I must admit that I also have a great deal of distaste for the tactic of 'I begin the fight... and stay on full defense, so nothing happens.' I know you've just said that there will be no formal ruling on when combat time begins - but until someone actually starts attacking, there is no fight (even if there is combat time).

So ... if the players wise up to the forced action thing, they wouldn't declare an intent to attack. They would say, for instance, "I draw my sword." It would be difficult to see how that could be anything other than initiative time ... but then the question arises: Though your opponent would probably know you're angry and such, if they beat you on initiative you haven't yet drawn your sword. So would they have any reason to pre-empt your attack? Or even to go into defense?

Like I said, it's a problematic 'solution.' However, I must admit that I also have a great deal of distaste for the tactic of 'I begin the fight... and stay on full defense, so nothing happens.' I know you've just said that there will be no formal ruling on when combat time begins - but until someone actually starts attacking, there is no fight (even if there is combat time). I believe this rule falls under “Don’t be a wanker.” The GM is free to retcon time / the round if he feels the player is trying to abuse Combat Time. I think Masters of War might need a sideboard about the notion of combat time.

I believe this rule falls under “Don’t be a wanker.” The GM is free to retcon time / the round if he feels the player is trying to abuse Combat Time. I think Masters of War might need a sideboard about the notion of combat time. You think ? Like the question about the position of the monks of the three orders in the celestial order, that the kind of question that get on the forums much too often.

They would say, for instance, "I draw my sword." This is what my group usually does.

View Full Version: combat time *again*

View Full Version: combat time again