Disarming

Disarming
Question: If I try to disarm my opponent with my sword, and he is using a Bow, how will this work? I still use Agility + Kenjutsu, but what about him? I don't believe he can use Reflexes because this is a melee action, but what about Kyujutsu? How the Disarm Maneuver actually works in being discussed. So far, I have yet to get an answer. I please to aim. I fail to see any confusion here? When disarming you make a contested attack roll against your opponent. You use Weapon Trait/Skill they use weapon trait/skill or strength/skill. Despite the fact you may infer that you must first suceed at a normal attack roll with 3 raises I see nothing saying I must do this, thus I can only infer that the only roll required is the contested one and also therefore you must take 3 raises on the contested roll. Why do I say this? Well every other raise combat maneuver states an effect that occurs after a successful attack roll the disarm maneuver requires a sucessful contested attack roll. The template for requirements then lists the roll required (contested or normal attack) in the maneuver itself. As I find no reference to maneuvers or even making rolls in the melee attack section, or posture section and the Attack and defense section makes no mention of maneuvers I can only assume that the maneuver chosen determines the typee of attack roll you make. Thus you make only one contested attack roll, with 3 raises. So contested roll; Weapon Trait/Skill they use weapon trait/skill or strength/skill. All I can find of shawn on this issue http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=552672&highlight=disarm#552672 Shawn muddies the waters here by saying you can make ranged disarms, which the book says you can't, but tsuruchi's legion says you can. The silly part of course is that in Narabaatar's example the defending samurai would roll reflexes/kyujutsu to contest the disarm. But RAW is known for its sillyness. May debate ensue.

Bayushi Bushi Rank 3 Tech: "You may make two additional raises on the Initial Disarm attack roll to end up holding the weapon." "Initial" implies that there is a second roll in there. Agreed. Also, ALL the raises in that section are raises on a normal attack roll. In order to benefit from the raise's effect and subsequent follow through, you must hit the opponent's TNtbH. At no point when refferring to the maneuvers does it say 'on an attack roll' it say's 'in combat'. Disarm is NOT listed like Grapple or Iaijutsu with separate resolution mechanics. It is listed with raises on attack rolls that go against normal TNtbH. That is becuase it is not as complicated as either and does not deserve such a lengthy section. So by your conception Initial attack roll against TnTBH taking 3 raises. If sucessfull then a contested Weapon Trait/skill attack roll. So what issues were we having with disarm again?

So by your conception Initial attack roll against TnTBH taking 3 raises. If sucessfull then a contested Weapon Trait/skill attack roll. So what issues were we having with disarm again? The issue is whether or not it is attack roll versus the opponents TNtbH + 3 raises doing damage as normal followed by a contested attack roll if the disarm roll hit, or if it is simply a contested attack roll with three raises required of the inititator. I say it is two rolls and you said: Despite the fact you may infer that you must first suceed at a normal attack roll with 3 raises I see nothing saying I must do this, thus I can only infer that the only roll required is the contested one and also therefore you must take 3 raises on the contested roll. If it is one roll and the attacker's contested attack roll is an "attack" and thus does damage, then is the defender's contested attack roll an "attack"? Does a defender winning the contested attack roll do damage to the attacker? Do effects that add to "attacks" add to either of the contested attack rolls? Does the contested attack roll trigger effects that trigger when the opponent is attacked? There are no official answers to these questions, so basically, we have no idea how disarming works.

The issue is whether or not it is attack roll versus the opponents TNtbH + 3 raises doing damage as normal followed by a contested attack roll if the disarm roll hit, or if it is simply a contested attack roll with three raises required of the inititator. I agree that that is the current issue. However I agreed with your line of argument and changed my mind. If it is one roll and the attacker's contested attack roll is an "attack" and thus does damage, then is the defender's contested attack roll an "attack"? Does a defender winning the contested attack roll do damage to the attacker? Do effects that add to "attacks" add to either of the contested attack rolls? Does the contested attack roll trigger effects that trigger when the opponent is attacked? There are no official answers to these questions, so basically, we have no idea how disarming works. Whether or not there are two rolls or one, it is a contested attack roll as per the writeup. Damage is the result of an attack roll. Ergo the defender may damage the attacker. Basically the text of the Bayushi Bushi tech is our only guide, but I consider it is a sufficient guide because of previous tech's that have retroactively guided maneuvers (tsuruchi etc) I think a ruling will need to be made regarding the defender wounding the attacker, but I can see how that is the current RAW. It very clearly states a contested attack roll in disarm.

Whether or not there are two rolls or one, it is a contested attack roll as per the writeup. Damage is the result of an attack roll. Ergo the defender may damage the attacker. Untrue (or rather, not necessarily true): not all attack rolls result in damage, since feinting and guarding both require attack rolls and the former doesn't ever do damage and the latter can explicitly be done without doing damage. A roll being an attack roll is not conclusive evidence it allows damage.

View Full Version: Disarming