humm...not to add more problems to the pot... but where does it say that the 4 raises must be on the same attack roll? "if you make 4 raises and two successful attack rolls against that opponent." The closest I can come to understanding that it needs to be applied to the first attack roll, is that you are gaining an extra attack. *** When you are talking about fighting style, I can see how you would require 4 raises to each attack roll, as you sacrifice precision for additional damage. Also, the tsuruchi Bounty hunter rank 3 (and rank 1 for that matter) might give some validation for the argument that each attack roll needs 4 raises. Why else would you be able to have 5 FR for an extra attack when you reach rank 5, unless you could possibly need more than 4. Except then, at rank 5, you can make the manuever more than once. Rank 3, then bounces back and says that you may now raise one fewer time for any effect, blah blah. Meaning, what exactly? If you need 4 for each attack (and again, it could be argued that its split into 2 attack rolls because anyone who can make 8 raises doesn't need to make the extra attack, except the tsuruchi who gets to shoot other people.) anyways if you make 4 for each attack, does the bounty hunter rank 3 mean that it is dropped to 3 for each attack roll, or 3 for the first and 4 on the second? Or just 3 on the first, meaning at rank 3 you can already have exactly 3 Free raises that can only be used for an extra attack. So at rank 4, you have 4 FR, but only need 3. So, yay for a Free raise that can do nothing, if you go by the 4 FR for first attack roll only, or decide to use the crazy idea of splitting the 4 free raises between the two rolls. *** If any of that made sense, I hope it helps the arguement. I myself think its 4 raises for each attack roll, because it forces free raise happy bushi to manage their free raises a little better when at lower levels. Yeah, sure your first attack roll gets additional free raises during a round. Too bad you had to pull the attack just a little too much to swing a second time...and that is what made you miss doing damage in both. If a character asks for flavor, or that doesn't make any sense, I'd say that the if one of the attack rolls is successful, it was the kind of attack that gets parried, or bounces off armour, or misses by inches.

The rules text allow for the raises to by require on one or both rolls. However, many of us believe that if the four raises are only on the first roll, then it trivializes the need for both rolls to succeed because if you are hitting with 4 raises hitting a second time at -20 TN pretty much means you auto hit with the second attack.

What if it is two raises on each attack roll. That would be a total of 4 raises and 2 attack rolls.

It would also be dead easy for most bushi. ;)

Extra Attack + Bishamon's
This came up yesterday at our game session. When declaring 4 raises for the Extra Attack action and if you possess the Bishamon's Blessing advantage, can you use those two bonus raises to add to your attack TN increasing it by 10, effectively reducing the cost for Extra Attack by 2 raises ? We could not find anything against it in the rules.

Ok I found it: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=552672#552672 The bonus raises can only be applied after success has been determined.

odd question
another question when it comes to extra attack... Can your opponent, if he has the higher initiative, hold his attack until you've swung once in a round, and then attack? If so, if that opponent's attack keeps you from making your second attack, does your opponent effectively stop you from hitting on your first attack roll? This is an example of how I currently see this working: Samurai John goes first in iniative before samurai Alex. John decides to wait in full attack posture, until just after Alex's first swing at John, in case an opening appears. (or because he has a technique/skill/kata/whatever that makes his attack better after he's been attacked) Alex, seeing that John is just standing there leaving giant holes in his defense, thinks he better make sure he kills john on his turn, before he does something sneaky, and so does the extra attack manuever for the extra damage it will do. He makes all 4 raises and the attack roll to hit John on the first attack roll, but! John, having seen Alex swing, now takes his attack action and uses it to disarm Alex. He makes his these rolls easily, and Alex's katana goes flying away. (maybe John is a bayushi, and now has Alex's katana in his left hand.) Is Alex now unable to make his second attack roll? Does the second attack gained from the Extra attack maneuver need to be the same kind of attack? Or, can he now try punching John, and if he succeeds at punching John in the snout, this means that his first sword attack also hit. Same situation, except both samurai are on precarious positions, where if one were knocked down, they'd fall out of reach of their opponent. Like say, they're standing on logs floating down a river. If John's attack were a successful knockdown, plunging Alex into the watery depths, does he stop Alex's first attack from working, because Alex was unable to make his second attack roll?

My reading of the RAW holds that you can indeed hold your action. You can choose to go later in the turn and it does not affect your Initiative. However, when it is a player's turn to Act, he chooses his posture and takes his action (page 165). The Attack Action is one possible action that you can choose when your turn to act comes up. Multiple Attacks merely adds one additional attack to the Attack Action. When a player is acting, he cannot be "interrupted" by another player acting. Another words, if a certain initiative number comes up and two people act at the same time, they both go simultaneously. Neither of there actions can exclude the other from acting.