Iaijutsu a Weapon Skill?

Iaijutsu a Weapon Skill?
A Weapon Skill is defined as: Simple enough, any Skill that directly involves the use of a weapon or weapons in combat is a Weapon Skill. If someone uses Iaijutsu and involves a weapon (say a katana), would Iaijutsu then be considered a weapon skill under that situation? By the RAW, there is nothing in the rules that state whether Iaijustu requires a Weapon, so I am curious where the line is drawn on Weapon Skills in regards to whether one must explicitly specifiy a weapon in the skill description or whether a skill can temporarily become a weapon skill if a weapon is directly involved with the skill's application. I realize that there is the historical intent that they are considered seperate and, of course, that Iaijutsu is seperated in the skill section from the other weapon skills. This is a sketchy argument, but I am curious how well it holds up to other official rulings as I didn't find any on my first pass of the AEG forum. I would prefer more than a simple no or yes in an answer, as I am curious on the criteria for how we define and judege a weapon skill, because the RAW is vague here. By the above passage, one could consider Jiujutsu a weapon skill because fists have been considered in court cases to fall under the legal definition of a "deadly weapon."

Juijutsu IS a weapon skill. Iaijutsu is not. Iaijutsu is a technique to remain ready for combat in all situations. As such, it is more the art of being focused, than actually attacking and defending. It's really a martial form of meditation. Instead of giving you void back, though, it gives you combat readiness at all times, in all situations.

Iaijutsu is a technique to remain ready for combat in all situations. As such, it is more the art of being focused, than actually attacking and defending. It's not a matter of flavor that I am considering, because I agree with you in the flavor of the skill. What I am actually curious about is that the RAW states we have a definition of what a weapon skill, which is a skill "that directly involves a weapon" and Iaijutsu seems to somewhat fit that criteria. The problem is that the 3ED corebook is mechanically scanty in regards to whether one explicitly needs a weapon for the quick draw art of Iaijutsu. It sounds stupid, but the rules in the 3ED corebook don't specify whether Iaijutsu duels with Naginata are just as relevant as those with a Naginata. This is the point where it is most damning to consider that Iaijutsu is not a weapon skill because Iaijutsu as far as the RAW is concerned can include any weapon or none at all. If it's been clarified otherwise or we consider that an attack must be made with a weapon skill (and correspondingly with a weapon) we start having trouble in considering whether Iaijutsu is a weapon skill. Just to be clear, I am not advocating this position or disagreeing with you in logic, but instead I am seeking to explore some of the ramifications for current rulings of the RAW.

It has been clarified that Juijutsu IS a weapon skill, and Iaijutsu is not. Also, it does state it in the book... Pg. 102 This is the art of the quick draw, used in Iaijutsu duels. It can also be used in combat to draw a katana without using an action, by making a Reflex/Iaijutsu roll vs. TN 20. It means it only works with katana. Iaijutsu duels are also only with katana, using the quick draw mechanic. Other types of duels, including katana duels without the quick draw mechanic, are called (insert weapon skill here) duels.

According to the list of Weapon Skills in the Budei Skill section, Iaijutsu and Jiujutsu are both not included. However, Jiujutsu is a form of attack. In the case of the "Strike" condition of an Iaijutsu Duel, "then your opponen immediately makes an attack roll (Reflexes/Iaijutsu) against you." (page 170, 3rd Ed Rule Book) In that case, Iaijutsu is an attack. There are only two sentences that I have found that refer to Iaijutsu with a weapon. Under the Iaijutsu skill, "It can also be used in combat to draw a katana without using an action." (page 102, 3rd Ed Rule Book) The second sentence states, "Many samurai (particularly those of the Crane Clan) would claim that the iaijutsu duel is the truest test of a swordwmen." (page 170, 3rd Ed Rule Book) Another relevant sentence to my point is under the Iaijutsu skill, "This is the art of the quick draw, used in Iaijutsu duels." (page 102, 3rd Ed Rulebook) Iaijutsu is clearly used in Iaijutsu duels. It is also clear that it uses swords because an Iaijutsu Duel is the "truest test of a swordsmen." However, there is no limitation on the type of sword that can be used in an Iaijutsu duel, according to the text. According to the text of the skill, the only use for Iaijutsu in combat (which I am going to assume is a skirmish) is to quickdraw a 'katana' by making a Reflex/Iaijutsu roll TN 20. I think there is a flimsy case that could be made that Iaijutsu can only be paired with katanas, in Iaijutsu Duels, based on that last line of text. I am not saying this is deffinitive, I am just putting the supporting text out there.

It has been clarified that Juijutsu IS a weapon skill, and Iaijutsu is not. *cough* Where was that clarified. I don't think that I ever saw that clarification (which, of course, means mine will be the post 3 down from wherever Rich or Shawn posted this :roll: ). If anything, I think that Seigi has made a good arguement for Iaijutsu being considered a weapon skill, while jiujutsu is not (and won't be until the DT puts "fist" in the weapons section of the book, or otherwise explicitly indicates that unarmed attacks are actually considerd armed attacks (?!). Eh, it worked for d20.) However, speaking of clarrification, I do believe there is one stating that neither iaijutsu nor jiujutsu counts as a weapon skill. I'll have to go looking.

By the way, exept for a few techniques, there is no point to making Iaijutsu into a Weapon Skill. Rank 5: Your Wound Penalties to your attack rolls are reduced by your Weapon Skill when wielding this weapon. (So when wielding an Iaijutsu I may reduce my wound penalties). Rank 10: When using this weapon, 9's explode on damage dice as if they were 10's. (So again, when I use an Iaijutsu I might get a bonus, this one to damage). And as strange as it is, Iaijutsu is not inherently a weapon skill, it is just a weapon skill when you use it with a weapon, therefore it cannot qualify as "Any 1 Weapon Skill" any more than you can take Kyujutsu as "Any 1 Social Skill" because it's the skill you would use to discuss bowmanship.

I swear I remember seeing a post where "fists" were clarified to be weapons. I am not always correct, only often enough to be dangerous.

And as strange as it is, Iaijutsu is not inherently a weapon skill, it is just a weapon skill when you use it with a weapon, therefore it cannot qualify as "Any 1 Weapon Skill" any more than you can take Kyujutsu as "Any 1 Social Skill" because it's the skill you would use to discuss bowmanship. The interesting part is that by the RAW Iaijutsu doesn't require a weapon, even though we associate its use with that of katana. I think only because it is not explicit that Iaijutsu duels use a katana is the biggest reason we cannot consider it a Weapon Skill. By the RAW, a weapon skill has to explictly involve the use of a weapon and since it does not, it is not a Weapon Skill. What will be interesting will be whether the upcoming Art of the Duel will clarify whether Iaijutsu explicitly requires a weapon.

I just got all giggley over quick drawing non combat items. Imagine the Artisan who Bam! has an ink brush in his hand, or the Drunken Master who can automaticly draw a saki cup. Ok, you could probably use sleight of hand to do these, but if you hit a 20 it's a free action... I guess the question to ask is what does this skill entail? Drawing the Katana quickly. Accuracy with hitting something while drawing. Finding out info about an opponent before a duel. Anything else in the RAW that gives us a hint? Once we can see the whole elephant, we can get a sence of what the skill entails in the RAW, then extrapolate.

The interesting part is that by the RAW Iaijutsu doesn't require a weapon, even though we associate its use with that of katana. I think only because it is not explicit that Iaijutsu duels use a katana is the biggest reason we cannot consider it a Weapon Skill. By the RAW, a weapon skill has to explictly involve the use of a weapon and since it does not, it is not a Weapon Skill. What will be interesting will be whether the upcoming Art of the Duel will clarify whether Iaijutsu explicitly requires a weapon. You use your Iaijutsu skill to Focus during a duel. This does not require a weapon in any way, katana or not. I daresay 'real' Weapon Skills are hardly ever used without a corresponding weapon somehow being part of it.

You use your Iaijutsu skill to Focus during a duel. This does not require a weapon in any way, katana or not. I daresay 'real' Weapon Skills are hardly ever used without a corresponding weapon somehow being part of it. But you also use Iaijutsu with a weapon to strike. What I was trying to say is that it probably doesn't mean anything right now as far as Iaijutsu using a weapon, but it could with Way of the Duel. Right now by the RAW, you can use anything or nothing in an iaijutsu duel. If becomes clarified that one uses a katana in an iaijutsu duel, it does put us in an interesting position of considering whether this is a weapon skill by the RAW.

But you also use Iaijutsu with a weapon to strike. For now, the only use, that I can find, for Iaijutsu outside of an Iaijutsu Duel is to draw a katana without taking an action. Then you could attack the opponent with Agility/Kenjutsu.

You use your Iaijutsu skill to Focus during a duel. This does not require a weapon in any way, katana or not. I daresay 'real' Weapon Skills are hardly ever used without a corresponding weapon somehow being part of it. But you also use Iaijutsu with a weapon to strike. Not really my point. My point is that Iaijutsu is often used without a weapon being part of it. Real Weapon Skills are (almost) never used without a weapon being part of it. That difference might arguably be enough to justify Iaijutsu *not* being a Weapon Skill.

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