Phantom ranks

Phantom ranks
cross posted Crab hands? Does it grant mastery abilities? the below implies no... SHawn I have another question to add to the list for Skill Substitution. Would mastery abilities from one skill transfer to the other? If I gain a Free Raise from Iaijutsu, do I get to use this Iaijutsu Free Raise when I substitute the skill for Kenjutsu? I told you so Shawn. :wink: The first reply asked about this. "Example: Doji Tarako has Agility 3, Iaijutsu 5, and Kenjutsu 3. Her Rank 1 Technique allows her to substitute Iaijutsu for Kenjutsu in situations where a Kenjutsu roll called for. When making an attack with a katana in a skirmish, she rolls Agility/Iaijutsu (8k3) and gains a Free Raise from her Iaijutsu Rank 5 Mastery Ability (page 94)." Shawn already answered this. ;) Fortunately, Shawn added my suggestion in the example. Another example: Because of the Way Mastery levels work, ALL character with Kenjustu 5 get to spend an extra Void in an Iaijutsu duels and get to ignore 5 points of wound penalties with a Katana dueling an Iaijutsu duel, just as Rich said. Correct. If a Rank 4 shugenja with affinity Fire uses Katana of Fire during a duel and had Kenjutsu 5, and Iaijutsu 3, but his Spell gave him 6 ranks (School Rank 4 + 1 for affinity +1 from spell description) of skill to use: He would NOT get the Mastery Free Raise from having a skill of 5+ since no new Mastery Abilities are gained by phantom skill ranks. Correct. He could declare a maximum of 6 raises because of his 6 phantom ranks. Hmm. I'm okay with that. He would get to use his Iaijutsu 3 Mastery ability to Focus an extra time. He does get to ignore 5 points of wound penalties due to the Rank 5 Kenjutsu Skill Mastery ability since he is using a Katana. He gets to spend an extra void on damage due to his Kenjutsu 5 Mastery ability. Correct.

I assumed no because the Kakita Rank 1 does not grant Kenjutsu Mastery Abilities.

Phantom Ranks never grant Mastery Abilities. This includes but is not limited to: Crab Hands, Crafty, Wisdom of the Kami, ect.

I assumed no because the Kakita Rank 1 does not grant Kenjutsu Mastery Abilities. This is an apples to oranges arguement. Skill swapping as it is currently ruled doesn't grant phantom ranks. You literally use the other skill, as opposed to gaining phantom ranks equal to the other skill. This doesn't mean that the rulings may not be similar, but phantom ranks and skill swapping are two entirely seperate rules issues. Tsukaede, is their anyway that you can post the entirety of what phantom ranks can and cannot do? I've never been able to find a comprehensive list of the way they work. I'd been under the impression that they work exactly like skill ranks except that they provide no Insight and no Mastery Abilitites. If I am misinformed I would like to know so that I can make rulings on the subject elsewhere if they come up. Come to think of it I've never even seen a ruling saying that phantom ranks do not grant mastery abilities, I've just been going off of everyone else's genereal notion as to how they worked. Phantom Ranks could work either way and I would have no problem with it, as long as they grant no Insight then it really just changes the overall effectiveness of phantom ranks. If it is possible that we were mistaken and that phantom ranks do grant Mastery abilities, then I will have to retract my opinion on how utterly bad the Shosuro Actor is(One of my favorite schools of all time :cry: )in 3rd edition. I'm not lobbying for a change however if it is not. I just want to know the ruling to be informed.

Tsukaede, is their anyway that you can post the entirety of what phantom ranks can and cannot do? I've never been able to find a comprehensive list of the way they work. I'd been under the impression that they work exactly like skill ranks except that they provide no Insight and no Mastery Abilitites. This is correct. They are Ranks in every way except that they do not grant Insight or Mastery Abilities. They DO: *Count for the number of maximum raise you can make with the skill *Apply to the bonus from an emphasis for that skill *Currently count for purposes of Multiple Schooling and meeting skill requirement for Advanced Schools. *Count against the skill cap of 10 ranks If it is possible that we were mistaken and that phantom ranks do grant Insight or grant Mastery abilities, We are not. Phantom ranks do not grant Mastery Abilities. then I will have to retract my opinion on how utterly bad the Shosuro Actor is(One of my favorite schools of all time :cry: )in 3rd edition. I'm not lobbying for a change however if it is not. I just want to know the ruling to be informed. What is wrong with the Shosuro Actor? It’s bonus Ranks are NOT Phantom Ranks. They just don’t grant insight. They grant all other Mastery Abilities.

This is an apples to oranges arguement. Skill swapping as it is currently ruled doesn't grant phantom ranks. You literally use the other skill, as opposed to gaining phantom ranks equal to the other skill. This doesn't mean that the rulings may not be similar, but phantom ranks and skill swapping are two entirely seperate rules issues. Meh... They were similar enough for me to never think about it.

What is wrong with the Shosuro Actor? It’s bonus Ranks are NOT Phantom Ranks. They just don’t grant insight. They grant all other Mastery Abilities.I assumed that since they did not grant insight that they were indeed Phantom Ranks. There is no instance in the book wherin something is called a phantom rank, that is our term for it. My mistake then. You just made my day. I feel like crying almost. :cry: :D

Bugger this for a lark. I understand it's difficult for Shawn to differentiate between errata and clarifications since it's easy for him to think of the way he does things as the way they are, but even by a conservative estimate I think the amount of rulings made as part of answering various questions that are actually errata far exceeds the ones that are merely clarifications - and because of that, it's next to impossible to keep track of all these errata. I've started going over every post Shawn ever made on the boards to filter out his rulings, but it seems more likely I climb Mount Everest before finishing that than vice versa. This is correct. They are Ranks in every way except that they do not grant Insight or Mastery Abilities. They DO: *Count for the number of maximum raise you can make with the skill *Apply to the bonus from an emphasis for that skill *Currently count for purposes of Multiple Schooling and meeting skill requirement for Advanced Schools. *Count against the skill cap of 10 ranks Well, Shawn apparently ruled they don't grant MAs despite the RAW saying otherwise. Are you sure he won't rule they don't do some or any of those either, if asked about it?

*Count against the skill cap of 10 ranks Let me just confirm that while you may not gain a skill rank over 10 via phantom ranks, that you CAN raise a skill to 10 that has phantom ranks added to it. It might be inferred from your statement that you cannot gain a true skill rank of 10 if you have a true rank of 9 and an extra phantom rank..... and PS dont let anyone tell you that the mastery ability of weapon skills at rank 10 is better than 2 kept dice. I'm looking at you shinjitsu!!

*Count against the skill cap of 10 ranks Let me just confirm that while you may not gain a skill rank over 10 via phantom ranks, that you CAN raise a skill to 10 that has phantom ranks added to it. I'm not sure that debate was ever entirely resolved. I remember that my position was that you could take a 10th 'real' rank, but that the phantom rank would cease to have any effect since skills cannot have an 11th rank. This is roughly the same reason why someone with 10 skill cannot spend a Void Point to give themself an additional rank of skill for one roll.

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