Simplified Dueling Rules (or oops we missed one)

Simplified Dueling Rules (or oops we missed one)
I took a look at the Iaijutsu Simplified rules now that they've hit PDF (http://www.l5r.com/images/RPG/L5R%20Art%20of%20the%20Duel%20Preview.pdf it's on page 11), and I realized that they are actually incredibly vague. Since they are Variant Rules, I'm not too upset by this - but since that was one of the first projects the JB may have had a chance to vet, I thought it would be important to bring the concerns up here. Specifically: The description of the Simplified rules says that when one duelist decides to strike, both roll initiative and attempt to attack. This brings up two questions - are both duelists forced to take the attack action, and when is the bonus from Full Defense lost? Do both duelists lose the advantage when one says he will strike? I sure hope not, because if this is the case, what's the point of saying that both duelists are in the Full Defense posture? Does the bonus from Full Defense last to the end of the round in spite of the attack This at least would make Full Defense relevant while still giving an appreciable advantage to the person winning the initiative roll, but is enough of a deviation from other printed rules that there should be a printed exemption. Does each duelist lose the advantage if and when they attack? This seems most in keeping with the RAW, but as a result, the person to go second may well be at an advantage, especially if both duelsts have to attack, as the person going second no longer has to contend with their opponent's Full Defense. These are the interpretations that seem most in keeping with what is printed. The following two seem like they might actually make the system work better, but in my mind require a greater degree of deviation from what was printed. Does the person who says they're going to strike lose their Full Defense bonus Immediately, while the other duelist only loses their Full Defense bonus upon taking another action? This one makes Full Defense relevant, and gives a bonus for remaining focused, which can be mitigated if the other duelist wins initiative. Is the duelist who says he's going to attack forced to do so while the other duelist retains the ability to chose? If you mix this with the last option listed above, you basically get the best of all worlds. Full Defense continues to work by it's normal rules. There is an advantage to maintaining one's focus, and there is an advantage to acting first. It would be my prefered ruling, but includes an element not present in the RAW (specifically that the person saying he's going to attack must do so, while the person who remained focused retains his ability to chose). Of course there would also need to be a mechanic so that the character who committed to the attack can actually keep from carrying through if he loses the duel in the interim. Oh, and Combat Reflexes auto wins the initiative roll in the simplified duel.

Does the bonus from Full Defense last to the end of the round in spite of the attack This at least would make Full Defense relevant while still giving an appreciable advantage to the person winning the initiative roll, but is enough of a deviation from other printed rules that there should be a printed exemption. This is the way that I want it to work. Does each duelist lose the advantage if and when they attack? This seems most in keeping with the RAW, but as a result, the person to go second may well be at an advantage, especially if both duelsts have to attack, as the person going second no longer has to contend with their opponent's Full Defense. This is the way that it probably works. I think that it bears noting that the varient rules depart drastically from the rules for skirmishing in a number of areas. If you prefer, you may simplify the resolution of an iaijutsu duel. In this variant, two duelists assume the Full Defense posture and face one another in their dueling stance. So far everything is normal. You can declare Full Defense outside of a skirmish. Both duelists use the Focus Maneuver, as described in the Legend of the Five Rings Roleplaying Game Third Edition core rulebook, p, 167. To my knowledge, you cannot use Combat Maneuvers until you are in a combat. Since Initiative has not been rolled yet, I am assuming that we are not in a skirmish yet. During any round, one duelist may declare that he is striking. I am still assuming that we are in non-combat time here, even though we are using Combat Maneuvers. Both duelists must then make an Initiative Roll, as they attempt to strike their opponent. It is only now that we are entering into something resembling an L5R skirmish. Unlike the normal rules for using the Focus Maneuver, however, striking second in this situation does not cause a duelist to forfeit the benefits of having used Focus because of his opponent’s movement. Another exception noted to the normal rules for skirmishes. Is the duelist who says he's going to attack forced to do so while the other duelist retains the ability to chose? It seems clear that "strike" and "attack" are synonomous in regards to the varient rules. I think that you are compelled to attack when you declare strike. Oh, and Combat Reflexes auto wins the initiative roll in the simplified duel. Indeed.

Re: Simplified Dueling Rules (or oops we missed one)
The description of the Simplified rules says that when one duelist decides to strike, both roll initiative and attempt to attack. This brings up two questions - are both duelists forced to take the attack action, and when is the bonus from Full Defense lost? Do both duelists lose the advantage when one says he will strike? I sure hope not, because if this is the case, what's the point of saying that both duelists are in the Full Defense posture? The FD TN bonus is lost by a character when they assume the Attack or Full Attack posture. This does not happen until their Turn comes up in the Round. Does the bonus from Full Defense last to the end of the round in spite of the attack No. Does each duelist lose the advantage if and when they attack? This seems most in keeping with the RAW, but as a result, the person to go second may well be at an advantage, especially if both duelsts have to attack, as the person going second no longer has to contend with their opponent's Full Defense. The person going first can still delay their action until the slower character drops out of Full defense allowing the faster character to get thier Action before the slower character gets their Action. This make Full Defense in simplified dueling entirely pointless . All the simplified dueling rules do is allow the focus action to not be wasted if the opponent moves. Does the person who says they're going to strike lose their Full Defense bonus Immediately, while the other duelist only loses their Full Defense bonus upon taking another action? They lose the FD bonus when they change their posture. Is the duelist who says he's going to attack forced to do so while the other duelist retains the ability to chose? No. All that is happening is the person calling strike is telling the GM to start combat. Oh, and Combat Reflexes auto wins the initiative roll in the simplified duel. Yup.

BTW, I appologize for not catching this while the simplified rules were still in playtest, as I do believe this was one of the mechanics we had access to.

BTW, I appologize for not catching this while the simplified rules were still in playtest, as I do believe this was one of the mechanics we had access to. I do not believe these rules ever made it to playtest.

They wasn't on playtest, I checked.

They wasn't on playtest, I checked. They were. I just checked. I just didn’t think those were the final version. That is one problem with playtest, we don’t get a copy of the PDF or any final text to make sure everything is ok. See the Akodo Chosai problem. This was supposed to be changed to Matsu Chosai so that no dueling techs were being used in the duel. Akodo Chosai should have hit his opponent by ignoring the Bayushi’s armor and getting to add +twice the Akodo’s honor to the strike roll. I take no blame for this one as Shawn was told to change it to a Matsu.

/wants to be a playtester I really would like to see these rules become functional. Do we plan to try to make something out of them, or are they DOA?

When someone chooses to strike they immediately drop out of FD and so their TNtbH drops. They'd better win the initiative roll... They're making a move in a duel, if they get it right they strike, if they get it wrong they get cut to pieces... There is actually no reason for your FD to drop at the point of Initiative being rolled. In a skrimish, you can be on FD going into the fight, roll Initiative, and then change your posture when your turn comes up. Also, we are not really sure if you have to attack, just because you called Strike. That is one of the key problems. Why would you call strike unless you were certain to win initiative? As far as I know, there is no way to know what Initiative will be until it is rolled. The only thing that you would know is how many Focuses each of you has made. If you were a Kakita, then you could use all those extra Focuses that your school gives you for added benefit on the attack roll, but that will not necessarilly help with Initiative. If you were certain to win initiative why would you focus unles the TNtbH you were up against was ridiculous? Apparently, Focusing, using these rules, is something done entirely before the duel begins. It is not clearly defined. There is no indication that the two duelsts even have to Focus or Strike. They could... Duelist 1: Focus Duelist 2: Focus Duelist 1: Focus Duelist 2: Focus Duelist 1: Focus Duelist 2: Pass Duelist 1: Focus Duelist 2: Pass Duelist 1: Focus Duelist 2: Strike Or any other combination.

These rules are broken in as much as Combat Reflexes auto wins. However, the mechanics are reasonably straight-forward, surely? TN starts high due to Full Defence, each round the TN increases by 5 thanks to the focus. When someone chooses to strike they immediately drop out of FD and so their TNtbH drops. They'd better win the initiative roll... They're making a move in a duel, if they get it right they strike, if they get it wrong they get cut to pieces... The duellist who doesn't decide to strike does have an advantage in that they don't drop out of FD until they choose to strike which could be after their opponent has taken a swipe at them. This is the interpretation that I would like to see made cannon. However, I have to disagree that this is the only interpretation supported by the text of the simplified rules. That is one of the key problems. Why would you call strike unless you were certain to win initiative? If you were certain to win initiative why would you focus unles the TNtbH you were up against was ridiculous? Because winning initiative will remain a problem regardless of who calls 'strike,' because your opponent will only call strike once he is certain that he has enough raises to meet your TNtbH, and because there is a maximum number of Free Raises you can generate through the Focus maneuver. If you have already gained all the bonus you can from the Focus maneuver, it is probably better to strike right away, as your opponent may be able to gain a greater benefit if you delay longer. Specificially, you may Focus a number of times equal to your Void Ring, +1 for Iai 3, +1 for Iai 7, +1 for Iai 10, +Lots if you are a Kakita.

In the simplified rules Why is Agility Important? A1: It increases your TNtbH (Full Defense requires an Agility/Defense roll). A2: It increases your chance of hitting your opponent (attack rolls with a sword require Agility/Kenjutsu) Why is Reflexes Important? A1: It increases your TNtbH (via normal rules). A2: The roll to draw your sword without action is a TN 15 Reflex/Iaijutsu roll. NOTE: Under the circumstances listed for a duel, it is entirely unnecessary to attempt this roll, as both duelists start close enough together that you can afford to spend a simple action drawing your blade - nothing in the rules indicate that you cannot take a simple action on your first turn after initiative has been rolled Why is Void Important? A1: Void plays a large part in determining how many Free Raises you can get from Focusing (assuming that your opponent doesn't attack first). A2: Void is always important when you are trying to meet a high TN or when you want to boost your own TNtbH. Why is Awareness Important? A1: Assuming that an appraisal still takes place, each duelling trait now has a specific purpose. Knowing your opponents dueling traits can give you a decent idea of how the duel will turn out. Why is Iaijutsu Important? A1: It helps with the Awareness/Iaijutsu roll (if that is still taking place). A2: At ranks 3, 7, and 10 it lets you gain advantage from one additional round of focusing (assuming you get that time). Why is Defense Important? A1: It is integral in setting your TNtbH. Why is Kenjutsu Important? A1: It is the skill used to make your attack. In other words, of these three skills (Iaijtusu, Kenjutsu, Defense), Iaijtusu is clearly the least useful. It has almost no roll outside of a duel, and it's roll inside a duel can be replaced by having a high Void Ring (which is useful in any context). A Kakita's edge in a duel will come from having high initiative, and the ability to (more or less) ignore their own Void Ring. (In fact, Kakita's First Stance would become devistatingly effective in this style of duel). A Mirumoto's edge in a duel will also be enhanced, as maximum number of focuses may actually become somewhat relevant in this type of dueling mechanic. (Each Void Point you spend actually robs your opponent of a potential Free Raise, and may cause him to call strike first if it looks like you can continue to gain advantage). As for the Ronin Duelist, ALL of his techniques will become relevant to dueling, although oddly enough his Rank 5 technique might actually lose some power, (as you no longer automatically lose the duel for declaring 'strike' first).

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