Stealth vs Hunting (Trailblazing) OK, So the desription of Hunting (trailblazing) is pretty straightforward (pg 102) "You can find safe passage through rough and hostile terrain, allowing your group to move unmolested through wild areas." blah blah, you can use this in the Shadowlands, min TN25.
Compare with the desription of Stealth (sneaking- the rest of the skills for either skill really don't have much cross over) pg 105 and mechanicly there is some similarity between the skills in effect- if you are working your way thru hostile territory it seems like you can use either to get yourself out of hot water.
On the one hand Trailblazing seems to be a big winner- 1 roll can affect your entire group, there is no honor hit for using it, it's a Per-based Lore skill (a benefit for some schools) you can use it fully armored with no penelty, and if you make a big enough roll you could, at least mechanicly, sneak right into Fu Leng's Pit without getting hassled with a legion of heavly armed unstealthy butt-kickers. (note thet there is no solid definition for "group" in this context.)
Now of course any GM worth their dice is not going to let this happen- that's just goofy- mechanicly valid, perhaps, but goofy. But that kind of cheapens the skill if you don't give it a chance (albeit a high one), right?
So my question to The Folk at Large is- When is Trailblazing appropriate? When is Sneaking appropriate?
Okuma- 09-05-2007
As far as I know, trailblazing works only against natural hostiles things : it can prevent snakes to hurt you, but if you don't use stealth too, the Naga Gards gonna see you...
Asahina Inu- 09-05-2007
As far as I know, trailblazing works only against natural hostiles things : .I think that is pretty much it. Trailblazing allows you to avoid natural hazards, such as noticing that a bear lives nearby or how to find a ford accross a river.
satsuma 48- 09-05-2007
That sounds like a fair interpretation of the skill, but that presumes 1) that there is a differance between "naturally hostile" and "unnaturally hostile". It also states that it can be used in the Shadowlands, although at higher TNs- are there even "natural hostiles" in the Shadowlands?
Besides, most natural animals avoid humans- incidents of wolf and bear attacks on humans tend to be overstated as even these creatures know there is easier prey. Do you really need an emphahsis in this skill to know not to pet the hissing snake or to not get between a momma bear and her cub?
I'd think it has more with being able to read the tracks and the general state of the locale and avoid any threats by knowing where said threats are, if it's a hoard of bakemono or a momma bear. With hunting you could track the bakemono, and in tracking them know where they are. By extension you also know where they are not, and can avoid them.
While I think this makes sense (and follows along with the RAW) That's a pretty powerful skill if you think this thru. Imagine 1 guy with a good Hunting (trailblazing) roll and a pack of (Hida Beserkers, Akodo Bushi, Harriers, or any Mean Motor Scooters) running around your backfeild during an invasion. They hit and they disappear because Mr. Trailblazer makes his roll. It's enough to make a tactician cry in his war fan.
Hiruma Gacho- 09-05-2007
Trailblazing will allow you to avoid pitfalls, quicksand, and such (which are in the Shadowlands), and find tracks. It does NOT let you find a "safe route" through guarded territory. A clever player may locate sentries' tracks and figure out a patrol schedule, but sneaking through the City of the Lost without Stealth is going to get you killed. You could avoid an army on the move, even in the Shadowlands, but if anyone or anything is in the area you want to pass through, you will have to take an alternate route, or roll Stealth normally to avoid any creatures.
The reason Trailblazing works for the entire group is that you are not going anywhere near danger. If you want to jump a crevice instead of walking the long way, you still need to roll Athletics, and if you want to enter restricted areas, you still need to sneak by or talk your way in.
Matsu Kiyohara- 09-06-2007
Trailblazing will allow you to avoid pitfalls, quicksand, and such (which are in the Shadowlands), and find tracks. It does NOT let you find a "safe route" through guarded territory. A clever player may locate sentries' tracks and figure out a patrol schedule, but sneaking through the City of the Lost without Stealth is going to get you killed. You could avoid an army on the move, even in the Shadowlands, but if anyone or anything is in the area you want to pass through, you will have to take an alternate route, or roll Stealth normally to avoid any creatures.
The reason Trailblazing works for the entire group is that you are not going anywhere near danger. If you want to jump a crevice instead of walking the long way, you still need to roll Athletics, and if you want to enter restricted areas, you still need to sneak by or talk your way in.
Exactly. Anyone who has been in the scouts (boy scouts, girl scouts, JROTC, or Special Forces Training) can tell you how useful Trailbalzing can be. You can walk through the wilderness and find a crevasse and KNOW from training and exp that if you follow the natural slope of the crevasse you can usually find a way to climb down, or even walk down. Further you can find your way back to the same point that you would have been if you could fly over the gap (especially usefull if you need to walk around said crevasse).
Another example how it can help would be ecognizing by sight what kind of areas are potentially dangerous. Avalanche sites, waterless deserts, and the like. It may not help you survive there, but it sure as heck can tell you to avoid there. That's pretty important.
Togashi Shinjitsu- 09-07-2007
Re: Stealth vs Hunting (Trailblazing) OK, So the desription of Hunting (trailblazing) is pretty straightforward (pg 102) "You can find safe passage through rough and hostile terrain, allowing your group to move unmolested through wild areas." blah blah, you can use this in the Shadowlands, min TN25.
Compare with the desription of Stealth (sneaking- the rest of the skills for either skill really don't have much cross over) pg 105 and mechanicly there is some similarity between the skills in effect- if you are working your way thru hostile territory it seems like you can use either to get yourself out of hot water.
Key words here in my mind are wild areas. As soon as you run across sentries, the area is no longer wild, and you should be working with stealth instead.
satsuma 48- 09-07-2007
I guess the issue comes from the phrase "unmolested". While being able to avoid common natural hazards makes sence, it's a rare GM that will play "PCs vs the mudslide." And I would doubt the grammer of being "molested" by a natural feature such as swamp, avalance, etc.
That phrase assumes that there is an active "molester"- lions, tigers, bears, bakemono, cranky ronin, etc. The skill description states that it is usable in "rough and hostile" terrain, not necessarily "natural" terrain, although thoese adjetives could be applied to natural terrain, they are not necessarily exclusive to it.
Muchitsujo- 09-10-2007
hmm, mudslide, thanks for the game idea ;)
satsuma 48- 09-10-2007
I live to serve.
And I have ranks in Hunting (trailblazing), so bring on the mudslide! and yer pansy volcanos as well! I laugh at earthquakes and hailstorms! Bwa-ha-ha-ha!!!
Hiruma Gacho- 09-10-2007
I laugh at earthquakes and hailstorms! Bwa-ha-ha-ha!!!You laugh, and die. I treat them with respectful caution, and thank the kami that were kind enough not to visit such terrors upon my family.
"Natural" disasters of that magnitude are not random in Rokugan. While earthquakes are common in some areas, the shugenja there are quick to explain that the kami are unrestful, and it would be wise to treat them with respect during one's visit. Predicting weather is part of Hunting, however (Wilderness Lore would be the appropriate emphasis), so feel free to laugh at hailstorms . . . until you get caught in one. Kami enjoy irony.
satsuma 48- 09-11-2007
You bring up a good point- could hunting be used to determine "unnatural" weather effects?, If so, could it be used to help survive them? If that's possible, then my "I laugh at volcanos" statement holds.
I guess I forgot to hit the "sarcasm" button. Again.
The bigger point to this is that the skill seems to be sort of a binary skill- you either avoid/survive or get hosed. That's useful if the gm wants to add flavor-"make your hunting roll and if you suceed you get to your destination earlier or unmolested" is a nice way to speed thru boring travel time in a game so you can Get To The Action, but does it have an effect once you are in The Action?
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