Summon, To Create or Not

Summon, To Create or Not
This is in response to the Chunk of Iron damage thread ont the AEG L5R player board. By the RAW, the spell summon only specify that you summon the matter, it does not say create. So I would like to bring this debate among you fine gentlemen. Does summon create the thing or take it from somewhere else? To make my case about actually taking it from somewhere else, I call to the bar the 1st edition book, claiming as evidence that you actually summon the substance from somewhere else.

Based entirely on the name of the spell, I think Summon summons. However, I have no clue where the elements are summoned from. My preference on matters such as this is to leave it up to the GM.

Ultimately, I agree with Katsumoto. However, I feel that the text implies creation, while I personally feel that the spell should be relocation... and if it weren't a violation of the printed rules, that's probably what it would be in my own games. *** The statement of ambiguity is: "The element appears." While that technically can apply to re-location, it is terminology more consistant with creation; especially since we know that the summoned element must be 'natural' but very few things naturally take a spherical shape.

Summoning rather than creating gives Shadowlands shuggies the ultimate tool to destroy all jade and crystal in the Empire. Bad idea. Flavour-wise, I very much prefer summoning though. Honestly, I think the best option is to go with summoning, but to impose strict limitations (distance, state of the summoned matter, etc).

why shadowlands shuggies get advantage ? They after all summons non-corrupted supplies.

why shadowlands shuggies get advantage ? They after all summons non-corrupted supplies. It's not so much an advantage as a very simple way of destroying all the jade and crystal in Rokugan, consequently making it next to impossible for the Empire to ever invade the Shadowlands. Just keep Summoning jade and crystal (which immediately lose their magical properties and start to decay soon after anyway) until there's nothing left.

why shadowlands shuggies get advantage ? They after all summons non-corrupted supplies. It's not so much an advantage as a very simple way of destroying all the jade and crystal in Rokugan, consequently making it next to impossible for the Empire to ever invade the Shadowlands. Just keep Summoning jade and crystal (which immediately lose their magical properties and start to decay soon after anyway) until there's nothing left. Jade and crystal are not composed of elemental earth, they, like katana are elementally void as pure combinations of all elements. Way of the dragon, agasha stuff for reference. The very same reason you cant summon molten lava, its two elements at once.

why shadowlands shuggies get advantage ? They after all summons non-corrupted supplies. It's not so much an advantage as a very simple way of destroying all the jade and crystal in Rokugan, consequently making it next to impossible for the Empire to ever invade the Shadowlands. Just keep Summoning jade and crystal (which immediately lose their magical properties and start to decay soon after anyway) until there's nothing left. For all we know, they are summoning the Jade from the demi-plane of non-magical jade. Your argument against summoning is interesting, but it could be irrelevant.

Also, remember that secrets of the Dragon say that a battle between an earth kami and a fire kami created magical jade.

why shadowlands shuggies get advantage ? They after all summons non-corrupted supplies. It's not so much an advantage as a very simple way of destroying all the jade and crystal in Rokugan, consequently making it next to impossible for the Empire to ever invade the Shadowlands. Just keep Summoning jade and crystal (which immediately lose their magical properties and start to decay soon after anyway) until there's nothing left. Jade and crystal are not composed of elemental earth, they, like katana are elementally void as pure combinations of all elements. Way of the dragon, agasha stuff for reference. The very same reason you cant summon molten lava, its two elements at once. Considering the Summon spell specifically says you can use it to Summon jade and crystal, I don't see what you're getting at.

Well it doesn't have magical properties so it's not real jade or crystal you summon which simply doesn't endanger the stocks of the empire. They basically said that you summon a substance similar to jade that reverts back to stone a few hours later. Which I seriously think was a bad idea. They should have simply banned the summoning of those materials using the multi-element or celestial element explanation. On the other hand this allow for ronin shugenja a way to make very quick and easy cash by selling their Fool's Jade then getting the hell out of Dodge.

I summon nuetron star cores. I'm awesome like that.

Considering the Summon spell specifically says you can use it to Summon jade and crystal, I don't see what you're getting at. I'm getting at: The item summonned posseses no inherent magical qualities. Summoned crystal and jade offer no protection against the shadowlands taint nor any defense against supernatural creatures. In fact the elements seem to subtly rebel against the creation of such substances I put to you the distinction between "True Jade" and "jade" wherein one is an element of earth and the other of void. Where true jade cannot be summonned simple jade may be, but simple jade has none of the powers of true jade. Ball's of iron do not occur "naturally" just becuase iron ore appears in nature, doesnt mean you can summon Michaelangelo's David worked in steel. You may summon a large chunk of rock that may hover within 10 feet of you. Sure that will hurt when a large chunk of rock falls 2 feet onto you (consider the maths it must be within 10 feet of you in a straight line, thus if it is 10 feet directly in the air it is directly above you) Items of sufficient density for an 'auto-kill' do not occur in the rokugani sense of the word naturally. We all know that liquid nitrogen can occur naturally in gas clouds in space, yet the spell makes the explicit mention that liquid nitrogen does not occur naturally. Lastly Isawa chuckles I hate you for forcing me to make such a verbose refutation based in fact.

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